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using dinner plates for lids when boiling kaapi
2005-11-04 21:40:59
That's what I've been doing. I don't have a pot with a lid on it. So
every time I've made yaje, I've put dinner plates over the two pots I boil the kaapi in. Inevitably, steam escapes from that setup. I wonder how much of the kaapi alkaloids I'm losing when preparing it that way. Even if I'm not losing anything, surely it's better to have a lid, to minimize unwanted evaporation. As it is, I often have to pour water in several times, as it escapes via steam. Could I do the extraction at a higher temp and shorter time -- The song of the Sirens is irresistible. Those who hear it and have not been tied to the mast like Odysseus will perish among the rocks (c.f. - The Odyssey).
2005-11-06 04:13:17
On 2005-11-05, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> That's what I've been doing. I don't have a pot with a lid on it. So > every time I've made yaje, I've put dinner plates over the two pots I > boil the kaapi in. Inevitably, steam escapes from that setup. I wonder > how much of the kaapi alkaloids I'm losing when preparing it that way. > Even if I'm not losing anything, surely it's better to have a lid, to > minimize unwanted evaporation. As it is, I often have to pour water in > several times, as it escapes via steam. Could I do the extraction at a > higher temp and shorter time > Traditionally caapi is often boiled in vessels without a lid on it, and more water is added as needed, you won't lose the alkaloids this way. Only reason to use a lid would be to reduce the amount of moisture escaping. One of the tricks is to let it boil hard at first, then reduce the temperature and let it simmer just below/around boiling temperature, stir from time to time and add water as needed. When the solution gets richer you want to take care that the liquid doesn't get too hot as this will cause caramelisation of the sugars that are present, which will make the brew go sirupy and lose sweetness. You want to simulate a wood fire which burns high at first after that turns into gently smoldering charcoal. I think the only way to speed up the initial boil and get it at a hotter temperature would be to use a pressure cooker for the first 20 minutes or so, then let it cool until it gets off pressure, let is simmer below boiling point for a couple of more hours, then remove plant material and carefully concentrate it, preferably using below boiling point temperature and having a fan blow over it. It's best to get the amount of milliliters of resulting ayahuasca at or below the amount of grams of plant material you started with. around that concentration usually the sweetness of the vine's sugars starts to overpower the bitterness. Rasta Robert --//-> -- <http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
2005-11-07 15:40:31
"Rasta Robert" news:slrndmr0mt.2s7m.rr@xs6.xs4all.nl... > On 2005-11-05, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > That's what I've been doing. I don't have a pot with a lid on it. > > every time I've made yaje, I've put dinner plates over the two > > boil the kaapi in. Inevitably, steam escapes from that setup. I > > how much of the kaapi alkaloids I'm losing when preparing it that > > Even if I'm not losing anything, surely it's better to have a lid, > > minimize unwanted evaporation. As it is, I often have to pour > > several times, as it escapes via steam. Could I do the extraction > > higher temp and shorter time > > > > Traditionally caapi is often boiled in vessels without a lid on it, > and more water is added as needed, you won't lose the alkaloids this > way. Huh? I've read in any number of recipes for the lid to be on the pot when boiling kapi. The lid is taken off when you get to the evaporation phase. Only reason to use a lid would be to reduce the amount of > moisture escaping. What exaclty do you mean by that? One of the tricks is to let it boil hard at first, > then reduce the temperature and let it simmer just below/around > boiling temperature, stir from time to time and add water > as needed. When the solution gets richer you want to take care > that the liquid doesn't get too hot as this will cause > of the sugars that are present, which will make the brew go > sirupy and lose sweetness. Wouldn't a lid enhance the richness of the brew, as it locks the steam in? > You want to simulate a wood fire which burns high at first after > that turns into gently smoldering charcoal. > > I think the only way to speed up the initial boil and get it at > a hotter temperature would be to use a pressure cooker for > the first 20 minutes or so, then let it cool until it gets off > pressure, let is simmer below boiling point for a couple of more > hours, then remove plant material and carefully concentrate it, > preferably using below boiling point temperature and having a > fan blow over it. > It's best to get the amount of milliliters of resulting > ayahuasca at or below the amount of grams of plant material you > started with. around that concentration usually the sweetness > of the vine's sugars starts to overpower the bitterness. > > Rasta Robert > --//-> > -- > <http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
2005-11-07 23:36:30
On 2005-11-07, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > "Rasta Robert" > news:slrndmr0mt.2s7m.rr@xs6.xs4all.nl... >> On 2005-11-05, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > That's what I've been doing. I don't have a pot with a lid on it. > So >> > every time I've made yaje, I've put dinner plates over the two > pots I >> > boil the kaapi in. Inevitably, steam escapes from that setup. I > wonder >> > how much of the kaapi alkaloids I'm losing when preparing it that > way. >> > Even if I'm not losing anything, surely it's better to have a lid, > to >> > minimize unwanted evaporation. As it is, I often have to pour > water in >> > several times, as it escapes via steam. Could I do the extraction > at a >> > higher temp and shorter time >> > >> >> Traditionally caapi is often boiled in vessels without a lid on it, >> and more water is added as needed, you won't lose the alkaloids this >> way. > > > Huh? I've read in any number of recipes for the lid to be on the pot > when boiling kapi. The lid is taken off when you get to the > evaporation phase. Probably those are not traditional recipies, but recipies to use indoors. > Only reason to use a lid would be to reduce the amount of > moisture > escaping. > > What exaclty do you mean by that? The only reason to leave on the lid, is to allow water to reflux. When yo're indoors, the escaping steam cause a high air moisture and condensation on walls etc. Outside on a wood fire, keeping attention on the brew and adding water when needed, keeping the lid on does not really serve any purpose. > > One of the tricks is to let it boil hard at first, >> then reduce the temperature and let it simmer just below/around >> boiling temperature, stir from time to time and add water >> as needed. When the solution gets richer you want to take care >> that the liquid doesn't get too hot as this will cause > caramelisation >> of the sugars that are present, which will make the brew go >> sirupy and lose sweetness. > > Wouldn't a lid enhance the richness of the brew, as it locks the steam > in? > No, I don't think it makes much difference whether to let part of the steam condense and reflux into the vessel, or to add some extra water during brewing. And boiling the ayahuasca too long will not increase the amount of alkaloids significantly, but will get more waxes and tannins into the tea. Brewing the caapi extremely long to extract that extra microgram of B-carbolines is in a way counterproductive, because it can ruin the taste of the resulting brew and make it more nauseating. Well made ayahuasca can taste rather sweet. >> You want to simulate a wood fire which burns high at first after >> that turns into gently smoldering charcoal. >> >> I think the only way to speed up the initial boil and get it at >> a hotter temperature would be to use a pressure cooker for >> the first 20 minutes or so, then let it cool until it gets off >> pressure, let is simmer below boiling point for a couple of more >> hours, then remove plant material and carefully concentrate it, >> preferably using below boiling point temperature and having a >> fan blow over it. >> It's best to get the amount of milliliters of resulting >> ayahuasca at or below the amount of grams of plant material you >> started with. around that concentration usually the sweetness >> of the vine's sugars starts to overpower the bitterness. >> Rasta Robert --//-> -- <http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
2005-11-07 19:16:38
"Rasta Robert" news:slrndmvp7u.2drg.rr@xs6.xs4all.nl... > On 2005-11-07, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > "Rasta Robert" > > news:slrndmr0mt.2s7m.rr@xs6.xs4all.nl... > >> On 2005-11-05, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > That's what I've been doing. I don't have a pot with a lid on > > So > >> > every time I've made yaje, I've put dinner plates over the two > > pots I > >> > boil the kaapi in. Inevitably, steam escapes from that setup. I > > wonder > >> > how much of the kaapi alkaloids I'm losing when preparing it > > way. > >> > Even if I'm not losing anything, surely it's better to have a > > to > >> > minimize unwanted evaporation. As it is, I often have to pour > > water in > >> > several times, as it escapes via steam. Could I do the > > at a > >> > higher temp and shorter time > >> > > >> > >> Traditionally caapi is often boiled in vessels without a lid on > >> and more water is added as needed, you won't lose the alkaloids > >> way. > > > > > > Huh? I've read in any number of recipes for the lid to be on the > > when boiling kapi. The lid is taken off when you get to the > > evaporation phase. > > Probably those are not traditional recipies, but recipies to use > indoors. > > > Only reason to use a lid would be to reduce the amount of > > > escaping. > > > > What exaclty do you mean by that? > > The only reason to leave on the lid, is to allow water to reflux. > When yo're indoors, the escaping steam cause a high air moisture > and condensation on walls etc. > Outside on a wood fire, keeping attention on the brew and adding > water when needed, keeping the lid on does not really serve > any purpose. > > > > > One of the tricks is to let it boil hard at first, > >> then reduce the temperature and let it simmer just below/around > >> boiling temperature, stir from time to time and add water > >> as needed. When the solution gets richer you want to take care > >> that the liquid doesn't get too hot as this will cause > > caramelisation > >> of the sugars that are present, which will make the brew go > >> sirupy and lose sweetness. > > > > Wouldn't a lid enhance the richness of the brew, as it locks the > > in? > > > > No, I don't think it makes much difference whether to let part > of the steam condense and reflux into the vessel, or to add > some extra water during brewing. > > And boiling the ayahuasca too long will not increase the amount > of alkaloids significantly, but will get more waxes and tannins > into the tea. Brewing the caapi extremely long to extract that > extra microgram of B-carbolines is in a way counterproductive, > because it can ruin the taste of the resulting brew and make > it more nauseating. Well made ayahuasca can taste rather sweet. > > >> stove. I have 8 ounces of kaapi in a 1.5- or 2-gallon pot. Started simmering it about 3 hours ago. So I'll just let it simmer for 3 or 4 more hours, and ingest it then. Hell yeah.
2005-11-08 04:50:18
*snip*
None of it matters now. I ruined the batch. I was so close too. But I just HAD to take a "short nap." When I woke up, $45, a week off Prozac, and almost 12 hours of preparation had literabbly gone up in smoke! Boiling the kaapi again, maybe I'll get a bit mroe out of it. REAlly pissed off though.
2005-11-10 00:01:38
On 2005-11-08, Jake Blues <5htp@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> *snip* > None of it matters now. I ruined the batch. I was so close too. But I > just HAD to take a "short nap." When I woke up, $45, a week off > Prozac, and almost 12 hours of preparation had literabbly gone up in > smoke! Boiling the kaapi again, maybe I'll get a bit mroe out of it. > REAlly pissed off though. Yeah, i've had it happen too, getting distracted too long and charring a batch of medicine. Hard lesson. On the other hand the longer you are off Prozac the safer it will be and also take into account that the more prozac is still active in your metabolism, the more it will dampen the effects of psychedelic compounds. I think I would try to determine a minimum daily dose of (non concentrated) caapi tea to replace the prozac. Occasionally taking a larger dose of caapi will also result in a more pronounced experience and less rebound than what you experience when you temporarily go off prozac to enable you to drink caapi, which will always have a time period in wich the effects of the Prozac wear off, before you can concider it safe to drink caapi. According to what's published it can be risky to take (lager amounts of) caapi within 6 weeks of stopping prozac, but there always is a variability from person to person. Someone who produces more endogenous MAOs will be less vulnerable than an individual who's metabolisms is naturally low in MAOs, for example, metabolic rates vary from person to person as well. Rasta robert --//-> -- <http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/> |
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